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CC: This
book has been an unexpected success. Public Affairs had to print
more copies and the book is being purchased throughout the country,
not simply in Washington. Collected nonfiction essays are generally
a hard sell. Why do you think The Woman at the Washington Zoo fared
so well?
TN: Partly,
I think, it reflects baby boomers' newfound interest in the topic
of mortality. It's been widely noted that 2006 is the year the
first baby boomers will turn 60. Much of Marjorie's book
is about the liver cancer that killed her. Marjorie writes
about her illness, consciously, from the perspective of a cancer
patient who wants to explain to a healthy person, as concretely
as possible, what it feels like to be dying. I
think the success of Joan Didion's new book, The Year of
Magical Thinking—whose sales apparently surpass anything
Didion wrote previously—also reflects baby boomers' interest
in death (in this instance from the perspective of one who is
grieving). Carole Radziwill's book, What Remains—which
I haven't read—is another book about grief that's been
selling very well.
But that only partly explains the book's success, and it's a
fairly reductive explanation. I think readers are responding
powerfully to Marjorie's voice—to the vividness and the
strong appeal of Marjorie's personality. In the book's introduction,
I invite readers to experience "the intense pleasure of
her company." Marjorie was a very compelling person, and
people enjoyed being around her (unless, of course, she happened
to be profiling them). To a great extent, that aspect of her
personality came through in her writing, too.
CC: I
don’t understand the relationship between Marjorie and
the woman in the Randall Jarrell poem that gives the book its
title. To me she seems as utterly different from the Jarrell
poem as anybody could be.
TN: Yes,
she is quite different. In the book's introduction, I apologize
for subverting Jarrell's meaning. The woman in Jarrell's
poem is defeated, dehumanized, de-sexed; all color has been drained
from her. Marjorie was nothing like that; her plumage couldn't
have been more vivid. It was, however, convenient for me
to borrow the notion of a woman at a zoo, observing the
animals. In my construct, the woman is Marjorie, and the animals
are the various social types in Washington—"The Pragmatist," "The
Philanthropist," "The Hack," etc., which are all
chapter titles in the book's first section. This has absolutely
nothing to do with Jarrell's use of these same elements.
My construct breaks down after the book's first section, but
so does the awkwardness of the book's relationship to the poem.
In parts two and three, the book's title gradually becomes more
faithful to Jarrell's meaning. Jarrell's poem is, after
all, written in the oppressed woman's voice; it's a hair-raising
cry of protest against the loss of vitality and autonomy.
As Marjorie delves deeper into her own story, we hear a similar
cry. We see Marjorie's anguish over her mother's
loss of vitality in "The Alchemist," and, in the book's
final section, we see Marjorie struggle to maintain
her own vitality as her body is failing her. The poem's final
lines are, "You know what I was,/ You see what I am: change
me, change me!" In this she is both successful and not.
As her illness progresses, Marjorie maintains her clear-eyed
perspective, and remains alive to life's possibilities.
At the same time, she reconciles herself to the inevitability
of her death.
I'll grant you it's not a perfect fit, and there's a limit to
my willingness to see my wife's death in literary terms
at all. In part, I'm just trying to follow her own
lead. Marjorie herself made use of the Jarrell poem in
her tribute to the late journalist Mary McGrory (which appears
at the end of the book's second section). Marjorie absolutely
adored Jarrell. She was especially fond of his comic novel, Pictures
From An Institution.
CC: It
would seem that Marjorie found a great subject in Washington
and its characters. Can you talk about Marjorie’s feelings
about her city?
TN: She
liked Washington quite a lot; much preferred it, for instance,
to New York, which she moved from in the mid-1980s. She liked
its smaller scale. I guess it felt to her like a half-step back
toward Princeton, which is where she grew up, though she never
put it quite that way. I was paging through one of Marjorie's
childhood journals not long ago and, in a passage about visiting
Washington in early 1973 to protest the Vietnam war with her
father, she wrote about how beautiful she thought it was and
said that she'd like to live here someday. I'm sure she'd
completely forgotten writing that by the time she actually did
move here, but maybe some of the underlying feeling lingered.
Marjorie explains her feelings toward Washington at the end
of "Flying to L.A.," a chapter in the book's second
section. There was much in the place that she found conventional
and conservative, but she liked to write about the contrast between Washington's
constricted code of behavior and what she called "the messy
human stuff" that everyone pretended wasn't there.
CC: Will
you tell us about how you selected the pieces that you included?
I particularly loved the profiles. Are there some that you left
out?
TN: I
left quite a bit out. In my first cut, I found that I had to
limit Marjorie's many superb profiles of powerful and ambitious
white males—especially powerful and ambitious white Republican males—because
after you read two or three, one after the other, they started
to sound alike. The blame, I think, lies not with Marjorie but
with the white males themselves. The profiles included in Zoo are
very deliberately diverse, not out of some politically-correct
impulse so much as the need to emphasize variety within the Washington
bestiary—perhaps a bit more variety, in truth, than exists
in the real Washington.
I also left out profiles of people who were not obvious Washington
types. Michael Lewis, about whom Marjorie wrote a riveting profile
in Vanity Fair, didn't strike me as properly classifiable as
a Washington type even though he actually had lived in Washington
when the story was first published. Ditto, Larry King. Others,
like Anna Quindlan and Patricia Duff, weren't living in Washington
when Marjorie profiled them for Vanity Fair, so they didn't really
fit.
Even with this template for exclusion, the original manuscript
of Zoo was about twice as long as the book that was
finally published. I was particularly distressed to cut Marjorie's Washington
Post profile of Clark Clifford, which many people remember
as her best, from the book. It was just too long. The good news
is that the strong success of Zoo probably makes it
inevitable that I will publish a follow-up volume. When I do,
Clifford will definitely be included.
CC: I
also thought that many of the articles seemed fresh and relevant
even after as many as 15 years. Did you have that in mind as
you chose the articles?
TN: To
my mind, the pieces never stopped being fresh and relevant because
they read like short fiction. The key, for me, was
to choose pieces not on the basis of how important the profile
subject was, but on the basis of how well Marjorie conveyed that
person's psychology, and what the person's story showed about
the sort of place Washington ever shall remain. Some people,
I'll grant you, were so boring that I couldn't even bring
myself to reread Marjorie's profiles of them, much less include
their profiles in the book. Sam Skinner, who was chief of
staff to Bush 41, is an example. I figured that if I barely remembered
that Marjorie had profiled Skinner, then it couldn't have been
one for the ages. Maybe 20 years from now I'll take another look
and discover I made a terrible mistake.
CC: I
don’t know many of the people that are featured in Marjorie’s
journalism, but I know Vernon Jordan a little. Marjorie captures
Vernon Jordon brilliantly – I could not believe she did
that piece 15 years ago. What did he think of it?
TN: I
don't think he much liked it, though I don't recall the details;
I heard about it third-hand. That one was a little
awkward for me because at the time Marjorie wrote it Jordan sat
on the board of directors of Dow Jones, which owned the Wall
Street Journal, for which I worked (I don't work there anymore;
now I work for Slate, which is owned by the Washington
Post Co.). Marjorie and I had sat with Jordan and his wife at
a Journal function not long before she wrote the piece.
Of course, that's one of the themes of Marjorie's profile—Jordan's
sheer ubiquity, which tends to silence anyone who wants to write
about his troubling transformation from civil rights
leader to corporate fat cat.
Jordan is among the most charming people I've ever met. Marjorie
was, among other things, a great connoisseur of charm and its
uses; she studied at the feet of a master (her father), as she
explains in the book. She puts this talent to great use in the
Jordan chapter.
CC: Marjorie
clearly had a novelist’s eye for character. Nowhere is
this more evident than in her remarkable dissection of her parents.
It’s an extraordinary essay. Some of the lines are so memorable.
About her mother: “You could eat at her table every night
and never taste the thing that you were really hungry for.” Did
she think about writing a novel?
TN: Yes.
She started one, and left behind some fiction-writing exercises,
but she'd only made a few baby steps in that direction when she
died. I have no doubt that eventually Marjorie would have written
some very good fiction. At the same time, I think the quality
of Marjorie's best writing demonstrates that the best nonfiction
makes as strong a literary claim as the best fiction. I think "The
Alchemist," which is the essay you refer to, is the best
thing Marjorie ever wrote. There's certainly more of Marjorie
in it than there was in anything else she put to paper.
CC: Finally,
I had the feeling that most of the pieces in this book could
only have been written by a woman. They represent a woman’s
eye and sensibility. Of course, she also writes about “women’s
issues,” but I just felt the power of her women’s
voice throughout. Do you feel that way?
TN: Yes.
Jennifer Senior, in a wonderfully perceptive review in the New
York Times Book Review, made the same point, but with some
trepidation, as though she worried such a judgment might appear
to diminish Marjorie's work. I don't think it diminishes Marjorie
at all to say that she was a very distinctively female writer.
That was a term of praise Marjorie herself often used to describe
other people's work. Of course she thought much of the stuff
peddled as "chick lit" was hackwork. But many of the
women writers Marjorie most admired—Anne Tyler, say, or
Penelope Fitzgerald—she admired specifically for their
skill at conveying a woman's sensibility. Marjorie would be proud
to be thought so herself. Which, of course, doesn't mean her
book is just for women. If it were, I promise you, I'd have lost
interest before completing its assembly. It's just a wonderful
book. I can say that, you know, because I didn't write it! |